Item 147. Minutes for the December 15 1999 Board of Directors Meeting Jan Wolter (janc) Thu, Dec 16, 1999 (23:44). 125 lines, 35 responses. Cyberspace Communications December 15, 1999 - Board of Director's Non-Meeting Minutes Presiding: John Remmers (remmers) Recording: Jan Wolter (janc) Other Board Members Present: Mark Conger (aruba) Steve Andre (steve) Members of the Public: Eric Bassey (other) Gregory Fleming (flem) Steve Gibbard (scg) Meg Heberlein (eeyore) Jennifer Kriegal (jiffer) Anne Perry (mooncat) Mary Remmers (mary) Carolyn Woodroofe (lynne) Board Members Absent: Scott Helmke (scott) Dan Gryniewicz (dang) Misti Tucker (mta) AGENDA ITEM 1: Gavel Banging - A quorum of 1999 board members was not present. - A quorum of 2000 board members was present, not that we knew, because the election wasn't over yet, and not that it mattered, because their terms hadn't started yet, but it does bode well for the future. - John Remmers began an "informational meeting" at 7:40pm. AGENDA ITEM 2: Chairman's Report - John Remmers noted that the election is still in progress. AGENDA ITEM 3: Treasurer's Report - The secretary had a hard time hearing the treasurer's report from the other side of the room, and then forgot to get the printout from Mark Conger after the meeting. But, actually, the bylaws don't require the secretary to report minutes of non-board meetings at all, so the secretary still claims to be performing above and beyond the call of duty. - Mark Conger presumably presented the treasurer's report for November. The full report is available on-line in coop item 141. * Probably he said that we were in the red for November, which is traditionally a bad month: Total Income: $456.52 Total Expenses: $627.75 New Members: 6 * We ended the month with 95 members, 88 of which are fully paid up. * Our bank balance ended at $5,281.83. - Mark almost certainly presented a preliminary report for December, but the secretary missed it completely. - Mark received an ad for ADSL in the mail from Ameritech, and wanted to know if staff was interested. Staff was was distinctly uninterested. - Mark received an reply to our credit card application. They first claimed they had not received any part of it. When Mark said that he himself had placed it into the hands of an authentic Postal Service Employee, they admitted to having received half of it, but still want us to resubmit the other half, and sent us a new application form. The new application form has a higher initial fee on it. Nobody was sure if the other conditions of the deal had changed. Mark believed the board had authorized up to $200 for the set-up fee, and it is still under that (he remembered correctly). General inclination was to continue going forward with this. AGENDA ITEM 4: Publicity Committee Report - None. AGENDA ITEM 5: Technical Committee Report - Steve Andre says the hardware is OK. - Mike McNally has volunteered to come in and install more disk on Grex. Arrangements are being made. - Madji, who had previously donated a lot of Sun 4/690 parts to us, has now donated a Sun 4/690 rack, which has been shoe-horned into the pumpkin by several energetic staff members. Staff is pleased to have it. - Grex staff member Michelangelo Giansiracusa has expressed interest in developing a web interface to party. The public was struck dumb at the concept. AGENDA ITEM 6: Swan Songs - Three of the four departing staff members departed early and were not present to sing their swan songs. - Mark Conger said he has been pleased to be able to serve Grex, and hopes that we will be able to find an honest and reliable treasurer to take over his office. He reminds people that the office doesn't have to be for four years, and that it isn't really all that hard. - All thanked Mark for his exemplary service to Grex. AGENDA ITEM 7: New Business - The future planning meeting happened. All who were there felt it was good, and worth repeating, but no specific conclusions were reached, and not many of the things discussed got posted on Grex. - John Remmers will be sending E-mail to new board members on scheduling the January board meeting. - Sara Arthurs is making good progress in setting up the conference for the next Grex auction, which will be opening within the week. AGENDA ITEM 8: Gavel Cessation - John Remmers ended the meeting at 8:07pm, making this meeting one minute longer than last month's. 35 responses total. ---------- (147) #1 Steve Gibbard (scg) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (00:03). 3 lines. gypsi was there too. Majdi, who donated teh 690 rack, is named Majdi, not Madji. ---------- (147) #2 Sarah Michaela O'Connor (gypsi) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (00:15). 4 lines. Eric (other) wasn't there, but I was. =) Please tell me I don't resemble that dorky theater techie person... ---------- (147) #3 Marcus Watts (mdw) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (01:03). 2 lines. You don't look anything like Eric, and so far as I know, you also don't own a single-track motorized vehicle (another identifying feature). ---------- (147) #4 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (01:33). 1 line. Interesting...was the public present "struck dumb" by web party? ---------- (147) #5 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (01:35). 1 line. Er, pardon me. Why were they? ---------- (147) #6 Sarah Michaela O'Connor (gypsi) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (07:16). 1 line. I think it took us a while to comprehend that sort of thing... ---------- (147) #7 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (07:55). 10 lines. hehe It's not a bad concept, but if one isn't too techy-minded and so used to textual-party, it would seem a bit weird (= I think it would be cool. I can remember the excitement I and others felt when they first saw Backtalk. Actually, I heard people discussing it and thought yeah it might be okay, but nothing flash. But, I was excited once I started looking at it and using it. And, just think one could web-party when there isn't a port available to telnet. ---------- (147) #8 Sarah Zamenski (gypsi) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (09:03). 10 lines. Yeah, I think the general consensus (once we stopped trying to picture how that would work) was, "Oh! Cool..." John brought up the point that when you telnet or dial in, you have access to tels, party, the conferences, talk, mail, etc. With party being on the web, you'd be that much closer to having everything right there in one window. (With the exception of mail). I think it's a neat idea, and I admire your undertaking of the project. I can't wait to see how (and if) it works. ---------- (147) #9 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (09:39). 8 lines. It'll work - can't start a project, and not complete it. I just have to start it first. Now, this project could be huge. It certainly is going to be very large, no matter how short you limit it. Before I start to undertake it, I need an idea of what we would like undertaken (let's perform an open analysis in computing terms), and a discussion of its feasibility. This deserves another item all of its own. What I will do, is create the new item here in coop (eventhough its bound to end up techie in later stages), and thus should probably be linked to garage then. ---------- (147) #10 Sarah Zamenski (gypsi) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (10:28). 4 lines. (I wasn't saying it wouldn't work... I realized how ambiguous that was after I posted it, and I apologize). =) I have the utmost faith in your programming abilities, Mic. I meant how it would work out, how successful it would be, etc. ---------- (147) #11 Pete Vassoff (pfv) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (11:36). 12 lines. You'll, I hope, plan on exploiting the mod_auth_external stuff that BackTalk uses? (is this a third database or using one of the current set?) The problems I think will occur after-the-fact are: 1) AFAIK, party has a "ceiling" on users - and it's lower than the ceiling on pty's; 2) It opens new vista's, to be sure.. But, it seems like it will reduce the feel of "community". I'd *like* to cheer it.. Maybe.. Kinda'.. ---------- (147) #12 Sarah Zamenski (gypsi) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (11:37). 1 line. There's a ceiling on party users? How low is it, exactly? ---------- (147) #13 Pete Vassoff (pfv) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (12:32). 1 line. I think mnut used to use 64 - not sure about grex.. ---------- (147) #14 C. Keesan (keesan) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (15:53). 3 lines. I am willing to help the new treasurer to transfer most of grex's funds from the bank to where it can earn nearly 5% interest (as discussed in great detail elsewhere). GLB pays 0% on checking accounts with no fee. ---------- (147) #15 Richard J. Wallner (richard) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (17:25). 6 lines. sounds like the credit card company is pulling a fast one-- saying they didnt get half the app. and now wanting a new one submitted with a higher fee. this is worth fighting. how much extra do they want? web interface to party would be cool but can grex cope with the sustained heavier web hits having this would result in? ---------- (147) #16 Pete Vassoff (pfv) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (17:31). 10 lines. yeah, the CC sounds flakey.. "web hits" are cheap, or so-I-am-told. I'm more concerned what it does to party, bbs and grex. Are they "users" or equated to "backtalk users"? Does it mean more income, less or the same? Dropping them in the one-and-only #web_channel and denying the "unwashed masses" both/or telegrams or channels might, just MIGHT get some income. ---------- (147) #17 Big Snauf (lilmo) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (18:11). 1 line. Web party is OK, IF they have to log in, first. (Pardon my ignorance). ---------- (147) #18 Daniel B Velleman (orinoco) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (19:56). 3 lines. I agree. From what I've seen, chat-that-you-can-wander-into tends to be much less worthwhile than chat-that-you-need-to-log-into, and sounds like less of a good thing for grex to be subsidizing. ---------- (147) #19 Don Joffe (don) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (20:37). 2 lines. Besides, there are tons of chat services out there already. What makes grex unique and gives it its unique population is that we're not web based. ---------- (147) #20 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (21:25). 10 lines. I doubt the ceiling on party users is ever reached, and it could easily lifted if necessary. That's not a problem, whatsoever. Sense of community? (= You call party main presently a "community"? C'mon, lets be serious... Web-party won't change anything, in any case, as you will have to be authenticated as a Grexer before you can use it. And, whilst I agree Grex shouldn't be changing for change sake, the textual interface to party (like bbs) will remain. This is only going to add to our coolness. ---------- (147) #21 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (22:13). 1 line. Thanks for your total confidence in me (: ---------- (147) #22 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Fri, Dec 17, 1999 (22:13). 1 line. That was meant for Sarah (: ---------- (147) #23 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Sat, Dec 18, 1999 (09:44). 1 line. Re #15: The fee went up from $175 to $199. ---------- (147) #24 Daniel B Velleman (orinoco) Sat, Dec 18, 1999 (11:03). 14 lines. I'm gonna disagree with #20. Party presently does support a few groups with a sense of community. Generally, as far as I can tell, these are centered around people who already know each other in real life, but this isn't always the case. Most of the grexers I've gotten to know, I've met in party, not in the conferences. Already, the amount of background noise in party gets to be a bit much at times. I'd be pretty annoyed if an interface change that was intended for "added coolness" made it any worse. I'm not opposed to web-based party; in fact, I think it could be a really good thing, and yeah, could add to the coolness of grex, and I think it's great that you're working on this project. I just wish you'd take what's good about the current party into account before changing it, so that the change can be an improvement. ---------- (147) #25 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Sat, Dec 18, 1999 (18:31). 3 lines. Personally, I preferred the party `community' of about 3/4 years back. I think the conferences are more intellectually stimulating, and you certainly meet some wonderful people through conferences (and less moronic forms). ---------- (147) #26 Daniel B Velleman (orinoco) Sat, Dec 18, 1999 (19:21). 9 lines. That may be. I'm just saying, just because you don't like the way party is right now, don't assume nobody else does. I'm sorry, I'm sounding a lot more confrontational than I mean to. I really do think this is a good idea, I like it a lot, etc. etc. It's just...when backtalk was first being proposed, there was a lot of concern that it not change the conferences for the worse. So here's another plan that I think has the potential to change party either for the better or for the worse, but there seems to be less concern over that. ---------- (147) #27 Michelangelo Giansiracusa (spooked) Sat, Dec 18, 1999 (22:26). 7 lines. I don't have a problem with current party. It doesn't excite me as it used to, so I don't go there as much. Big deal. I'm not hurting anyone. No hard feelings (: Everyone's entitled to their opinion. And, when I say I don't like party, or it doesn't excite me as it once did, that is for two reasons...I enjoy conferencing more nowadays, and it's the atmosphere which has strunk (rather than the program) - I think party's a great program, and I'm glad people enjoy using it. ---------- (147) #28 Daniel B Velleman (orinoco) Mon, Dec 20, 1999 (00:02). 3 lines. Ah. Quite possibly I just misinterpreted what you were saying, then. Because, after all, what would Grex be without fiercely-argued misinterpretations? ---------- (147) #29 Jan Wolter (janc) Mon, Dec 20, 1999 (14:40). 17 lines. One of the things that surprised me when I started doing software development on Grex was that, almost no matter what you change, someone will hate it. I don't think I ever added a feature to party (noises, channels, etc) that someone didn't hate with a passion. That's actually perfectly sensible. People have a community here. They don't want it to change, and anything that might change the community is suspicious. Would offering a web interface to party attract a different set of people to party? Perhaps. A less pleasant set? If you really like the current partiers, and change is likely to be for the worse. Still, I think it is worth trying new things. Build it, give it a try. You may need to make adjustments to mollify people who are bothered by particular features. There is a tiny chance that it will be hated so much that people will want it utterly removed. Probably not - there may be some controversy, but we have usually been able to find compromises in the past. But don't expect universal delight at the prospect of something like this. ---------- (147) #30 Sarah Zamenski (gypsi) Mon, Dec 20, 1999 (14:44). 2 lines. The only thing we can do is try it and see. Nobody knows what it will be like. I agree with #29. ---------- (147) #31 Pete Vassoff (pfv) Mon, Dec 20, 1999 (14:52). 4 lines. I too agree.. And, have offered some help. The kicker is to keep it flexible enough to answer problems and issues that arise. (I know, grex never has either - spare me ;-) ---------- (147) #32 E R Bassey (other) Tue, Dec 21, 1999 (00:51). 3 lines. problems and issues? that would suggest that grex is less than perfect. ...or perhaps just different from perfect. ---------- (147) #33 Big Snauf (lilmo) Wed, Jan 5, 2000 (17:23). 1 line. Re #28: Friendlier? ---------- (147) #34 Daniel B Velleman (orinoco) Wed, Jan 5, 2000 (20:00). 1 line. Hush. A minor detail. :) ---------- (147) #35 Big Snauf (lilmo) Sat, Jan 22, 2000 (17:53). 1 line. Sorry, I forgot. :-)