Item 59. Minutes of Grex Board Meeting 18 December 2003 Eric R Bassey (other) Thu, Dec 18, 2003 (20:58). 91 lines, 56 responses. 7:04 pm bhoward calls. present: mary*, remmers, aruba*, other*, slynne, gelinas*, polygon, sgsk, flem*, bhoward (by phone) [* denotes current board member] 1. Opening gavel: 7:12pm EDT 2. $466 in, $499 out - november. december so far: $470 in, $261 out [expected] (phone bill correction due to sbc screwup on centrex cancellation) 4 returning members, 2 new, 83 members, 82 current (paid up). cafe press sent money. woohoo. sold a pc video board to someone in columbus, oh. for $10. for more details, see treasurer's report online. 3. staff: gelinas: usual deletes, locks and a reap with 13000 user accounts recovered. newuser moved to a/ partition instead of d/. new user group "neighbor" 17000-18000 accounts remain current. reap took about 14 hours, locking/cleanup is 2-3 hrs per week, but could be more. [doorbell - mdw arrives 7:23] 4. will come back to it when STeve arrives [some 20min - 2hrs hence]. 5. legal advice: other: We've been offered a consultation by attorney Doug Mulkoff in Ann Arbor. Discussion follows about the circumstances under which to actually make the first consultation. Mary suggests that we should hold off until we have a specific concern, while mdw says we already have some, and flem says we should do it just to find out what to look out for. mdw: we need to do our homework so we can know as much as possible going in. other: the purpose of the first consultation is mutual education. aruba: let's form a game plan before going in, in order to reduce attorney time requirements in getting up to speed on us. follow-up committee: polygon, gelinas, aruba, with input from other interested parties. will develop document to educate attorney about Grex. polygon will call attorney Mulkoff to inform him of our process on this. 6. trademark. $335 per service for ten-yr period (US). cannot use circle-r until registration complete, but circle-tm, and circle-sm can be used before then. not only words, but the specific forms as well are covered. renewal requires form but no fee (apparently). Next Step: work up the application, and determine then whether to submit it and pay the fee. There is not uniform belief in the necessity of this move among those present. Grex is registered as a DBA. cyberspace.org domain is possibly our most valuable asset, and if trademarking is applicable and will protect us from loss of it, then it may be justified. 7. remote Bd mem access: seems to be working. speaking volume has to remain high enough to overcome sensitivity issues with the technology. discussion covers differences in technology and user experience quality, primarily between full- and half-duplex modes. Question: should we buy the unit we're using now, or something less expensive, or something. Question answered. mdw is making a donation to cover the cost of the unit we're now using [$140]. 8. new business: aruba thanks currently departing board members for 4yrs of service. flem's mental meanderings: we've had an awful lot of stuff going on on the baff list. how should we respond appropriately. Basically how we've been doing it. [8:30 - STeve arrives] 4. next grex: openBSD 3.4 has been installed. ssh available for existing accounts. docs in cvs. meetings will be scheduled and online work can also proceed. 5. staff report cont'd: STeve locked a bunch and none squawked. Board should address /var/spool/mail disk, because its lifespan is running out. Should we replace disk on current machine or spend the time on next grex? Answer: hopefully next grex will up before mail disk dies. We have the hardware to replace it available, but the cost is time. 9. Closing Gavel: 8:51pm EDT 56 responses total. ---------- (59) #1 Tough Texan New Yorker. I resign from staff as it is. (willcome) Thu, Dec 18, 2003 (21:04). 1 line. Did you guys even get around to discussion the colour problem?! ---------- (59) #2 Eric R Bassey (other) Thu, Dec 18, 2003 (21:07). 1 line. Correction: EDT times referenced above are actually EST. ---------- (59) #3 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Thu, Dec 18, 2003 (22:15). 1 line. Thank you for the complete and quick minutes, other. :) ---------- (59) #4 Mark A Conger (aruba) Thu, Dec 18, 2003 (23:26). 1 line. Heh. Fastest minutes ever. :) ---------- (59) #5 Bruce Howard (bhoward) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (00:30). 2 lines. Thanks again to Mary for sorting out such a nice speakerphone. I was able to hear everyone quite clearly. ---------- (59) #6 Mary Remmers (mary) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (06:32). 5 lines. You are most welcome, Bruce. I think Eric must have posted these minutes before leaving the meeting location. It's going to be hard to top that. ---------- (59) #7 John H. Remmers (remmers) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (06:36). 2 lines. He posted the minutes before getting up from his chair, seven minutes after the closing gavel. A new record. ---------- (59) #8 Dave Lovelace (davel) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (08:33). 5 lines. Were any of the decisions which were made (keep the mail disk if possible, for example) actually motions which were voted on? The minutes aren't clear on this, & I'm just curious; but if they were, the minutes should say so. If they weren't, fine. ---------- (59) #9 Mark A Conger (aruba) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (08:36). 1 line. No, we didn't vote on any motions. ---------- (59) #10 Carson (carson) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (08:36). 1 line. (wow. he even caught the EST/EDT error right away. Eric's my new hero!) ---------- (59) #11 Mickey (micklpkl) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (09:03). 1 line. What is the "baff list?" ---------- (59) #12 John H. Remmers (remmers) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (09:14). 1 line. Mailing list for board and staff. ---------- (59) #13 John Ellis Perry Jr. (jep) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (09:18). 1 line. It's a pretty good start. For a beginner. ---------- (59) #14 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (09:28). 13 lines. Here is a list of some subjects of recent messages to baff, with dates: Nov 25 Certifying candidates Dec 3 Supercharge your sexual battery Dec 2 SPAM (Greetings from Grex Candidate Dec 2 Account of Board Candidate Terminated Dec 6 Participation in Coop Dec 8 Programs to display excerpts from newuser text Dec 12 Ethernet on Next Grex Dec 17 Thursday Board Meeting Location Change Dec 18 OpenBSD 3.4 Some topics generated more messages than others. ---------- (59) #15 David Brodbeck (gull) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (10:01). 2 lines. I think we should have a vote on whether to supercharge Grex's sexual battery. ---------- (59) #16 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (10:37). 1 line. Can someone explain the way Grex uses groups? ---------- (59) #17 Eric R Bassey (other) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (10:59). 1 line. Probably ---------- (59) #18 Jan Wolter (janc) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (20:46). 2 lines. Don't buy any new disks for old Grex. There are about five 4 Gig disks already connected to old Grex. Turn one on, format it, and go. ---------- (59) #19 Marcus Watts (mdw) Fri, Dec 19, 2003 (22:01). 3 lines. We have many examples of groups on grex. For instance, we have trivial groups, integral domains, and cyclic groups. I don't know if we have any baby monster groups. ---------- (59) #20 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Sat, Dec 20, 2003 (09:42). 2 lines. Well, I mean specifically, why is it there are multiple groups such as "neighbors," etc., when everyone can just fall into one group? ---------- (59) #21 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Sat, Dec 20, 2003 (09:47). 6 lines. Because SunOS 4.1.4 has a limit of 64K (+/-) uids. When we get close to that limit, we switch to a new group, which causes newuser to start at the bottom and fill in. Since OpenBSD doesn't have that limit, we expect to migrate to just one group for everyone. ---------- (59) #22 Tough Texan New Yorker. I resign from staff as it is. (willcome) Sat, Dec 20, 2003 (11:26). 2 lines. Personally, I think Grex should maintain it's quirky tradition even when it doesn't have to. It'll add character to the system. ---------- (59) #23 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Sat, Dec 20, 2003 (17:37). 2 lines. 21: How bizzare. Which one will be the standard name or will it be something new? ---------- (59) #24 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Sat, Dec 20, 2003 (17:55). 3 lines. Why "bizarre"? I don't know; I don't even know if thought has been given to the matter. ---------- (59) #25 Tough Texan New Yorker. I resign from staff as it is. (willcome) Sat, Dec 20, 2003 (20:22). 1 line. Re. 22: its. ---------- (59) #26 John H. Remmers (remmers) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (08:06). 5 lines. What's bizarre is that a service running on such old hardware and software gets so many users. What's the standard group name - "guest"? Seems contrary to the concept that we like people to move in and stick around forever. Maybe "resident". ---------- (59) #27 Bruce Howard (bhoward) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (09:34). 2 lines. What do you think about using "citizen" which communicates the sense commitment without implying physical locality? ---------- (59) #28 John H. Remmers (remmers) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (10:03). 6 lines. Current names are folks, beings, humans, populus, entities, units, sapients, and citizens. So there's precedent for "citizen" and it does convey an appropriate idea, but it'd be fun to come up with something new. How about "grexers"? ---------- (59) #29 Jan Wolter (janc) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (13:02). 7 lines. Because of the uid limit, most Grex uid's have been used by many different accounts over the years. However, the combination of group-id-number and user-id-number uniquely identifies every user in the history of Grex. That's cool but I can't think of any use for it. I can't say I care at all what happens to this when we move over. Might be best just to move everyone to one group and never have to think about it again. ---------- (59) #30 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (14:27). 3 lines. 24: It just strikes me as an odd way to solve the problem. 26: The standard group is users, I think. ---------- (59) #31 Mary Remmers (mary) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (14:51). 1 line. Bipeds? ---------- (59) #32 Dan Cross (cross) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (15:02). 2 lines. What about the group name that had been already chosen and put into the renumber script? ---------- (59) #33 Jim Daloonik (naftee) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (17:08). 1 line. re 20 "neighbours" ---------- (59) #34 Sindi Keesan (keesan) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (17:54). 1 line. Plebs - the common people of ancient Rome; the general populace. ---------- (59) #35 Mary Remmers (mary) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (19:44). 2 lines. Mortals. You can't get much more inclusive than that. ---------- (59) #36 John H. Remmers (remmers) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (20:13). 2 lines. Yes, but through one's writing (on a bbs or elsewhere) one achieves a measure of immortality. ---------- (59) #37 Marcus Watts (mdw) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (22:29). 1 line. Which would better fit "aspirants". ---------- (59) #38 Mark A Conger (aruba) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (23:14). 3 lines. Re #31: I can think of at least two Grexers who aren't bipeds... How about "rabble". ---------- (59) #39 Sindi Keesan (keesan) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (23:28). 1 line. You'uns. ---------- (59) #40 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Sun, Dec 21, 2003 (23:54). 1 line. Too many suggestions come to mind. ---------- (59) #41 David Brodbeck (gull) Mon, Dec 22, 2003 (11:10). 1 line. I'd push for "users", because of the principle of least surprise. ---------- (59) #42 John H. Remmers (remmers) Mon, Dec 22, 2003 (12:13). 1 line. But Grex is *supposed* to be surprising! ---------- (59) #43 Bruce Howard (bhoward) Mon, Dec 22, 2003 (20:38). 2 lines. Rereading all this, I've decided that personally, I prefer "folks" to "citizens". ---------- (59) #44 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Mon, Dec 22, 2003 (21:19). 4 lines. Re 32: I couldn't find that name mentioned anywhere. I finally tracked it down in garage: gid 50 (people) -> * gid 200 (people) ---------- (59) #45 John Ellis Perry Jr. (jep) Mon, Dec 22, 2003 (23:10). 4 lines. Wouldn't the most inclusive group name be "us"? I am trying to think of reasons why it matters what the group name is, and failing. ---------- (59) #46 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Mon, Dec 22, 2003 (23:11). 1 line. Can I have a group called "them?" ---------- (59) #47 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Mon, Dec 22, 2003 (23:16). 1 line. Everything matters to _someone_, jep. :) ---------- (59) #48 Jim Daloonik (naftee) Tue, Dec 23, 2003 (03:29). 1 line. I nominate "myself" ---------- (59) #49 John H. Remmers (remmers) Tue, Dec 23, 2003 (09:32). 6 lines. Re #59: "Us" could be misinterpreted as "United States", decidedly non-inclusive. It doesn't matter why or whether it matters what the group name is. Experience tells us that a large percentage of discussion on any public bbs is about things that don't matter. ---------- (59) #50 John Ellis Perry Jr. (jep) Tue, Dec 23, 2003 (10:41). 4 lines. So you're saying that my point about the topic being irrelevant is irrelevant? I can live with that. How about "earthlings"? ---------- (59) #51 Greg Fleming (flem) Tue, Dec 23, 2003 (11:56). 2 lines. I'd support "earthlings", because Murphy's law dictates that this will eventually cause extraterrestrials to visit grex. Which would be cool. ---------- (59) #52 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Tue, Dec 23, 2003 (12:03). 1 line. From the grexergallery, I am not certain they haven't yet. ---------- (59) #53 S M (mynxcat) Tue, Dec 23, 2003 (13:57). 1 line. hah! ---------- (59) #54 Mary Remmers (mary) Sat, Dec 27, 2003 (21:19). 2 lines. A date has been set for the next board meeting. It'll be on Monday, January 19th, 7:00 p.m., at slynne's house. ---------- (59) #55 Jim Daloonik (naftee) Sun, Dec 28, 2003 (14:30). 2 lines. THAT SOUNDS MORE LIKE A PARTY , IF IT'S AT SLYNNE'S HOUSE< I HEARD SHE'S A PARTY *&ANIMAL* ---------- (59) #56 Tough Texan New Yorker. I resign from staff as it is. (willcome) Sun, Dec 28, 2003 (16:30). 1 line. I made a response that I didn't like and this is the memorial.